(UPDATE) goog2k – All mouth, no trousers

Update

Not sure how much of an update this is. goog2k doesn’t reply to my messages and won’t reply to a direct contact. I guess the bet is off. 🙂

Update 2

Just been informed that my blog posting on goog2k is now ranked higher than his own site. Now that’s funny. 🙂

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You have at to admire the persistence of some global warming zealots. You know, the sort of person who you try and share an opinion with, but if it doesn’t match theirs 100%, they think they have to shut you down. goog2k is such a person.

Type goog2k into Google and you’ll find literally thousands of comments spread across YouTube, Twitter, World News and just about EVERY SINGLE CLIMATE DEBATE WEBSITE YOU COULD MENTION. It’s Goog2k’s single handed mission to save the rest of us from our misguided, ill notioned ideas of what is and what isn’t science.

Of course, as with most zealots, goog2k doesn’t actually have a full grasp of the science. In fact, like all zealots, goog2k is only able to repeat certain facts over and over again, parrot fashion and then tear down dissenters with the modern day version of “heretic!”; “denialist!”.

I’ve fallen upon goog2k’s gaze before now, in a very minor chat about what would happen in the Arctic icecaps would melt. I seem to remember him (I presume it’s a he, no women would be quite so rude) suggesting the majority of the land being under water and then I had to point out that Arctic ice is already displacing more volume that it’s melted equivalent would take up. For which I was rewarded with various personal insults.

So it came as no surprise to me that when I made a comment on the validity of one of his sweeping statements that I came under the full force of his intellect.

I’m posting every single interaction we had, not because I like filling up my blog space, I just don’t want to be accused of “cherry picking” the posts that put forward my case 😉 wink wink.

He originally posted

What happened to all the global COOLING the silly dingdong DENIERS and FOX News were yelling about a year ago? Not only was 2010 tied as the HOTTEST year on RECORD, it seems I’ve heard something about Texas and the south burning up this year???

Has anyone else heard of that?

Duhh???

goog2k

To which I half jokingly replied;

“What happened to all the global COOLING ” – It happened. NASA sat. data shows cooling. Southern hemisphere especially.

Plus, to use your argument, WHERE IS THE HEATING? James Hanson / Phil Jones predicted NO SNOW in UK by 2010. We’ve had the three worst winters on record.

May I suggest you read “On the Misdiagnosis of Surface Temperature Feedbacks from Variations in Earth’s Radiant Energy Balance“, by Spencer and William Braswell.

ascolti

Little did I expect the reply

@ascolti Sorry Dingdong, 2010 was TIED with 2005 as the HOTTEST year on record. Right now half the U.S. is burning up!

Summer Arctic Sea Ice has dropped -50% since 1980.

CO2 is up +30% for 400,000 years.

CO2 Ocean Acidification is up +30% since 1900!

Oops?

For more data & documented info. on Carbon Dioxide/CO2 Concentration, Global Surface Tempera-ture, Arctic Sea Ice and Land Ice (Antarctica & Greenland) & Sea Levels

Search: NASA Climate Change

or go to:

climate.nasa(dot)gov/keyIndica­tors

goog2k

Now, I’m not sure I required an insult, and I figured it was pretty childish. So replied as such.

@goog2k “Dingdong” – Ah, I see you have the same approach to science as Phil Jones. Anybody who doesn’t agree must first be insulted and then have a load of spurious and highly debatable figured thrown at them.

Let me reply to each of your comments in part.

ascolti

Which I did.

“Summer Arctic Sea Ice has dropped -50% since 1980.” – And large areas of Antarctic ice has increased. Your conclusion?

“CO2 is up +30% for 400,000 years.” – But it has been higher before and temperatures were lower. Your conclusion?

“CO2 Ocean Acidification is up +30% since 1900!” – And what are you thoughts of the effects of Arctic tea or the significant increase of the highly salinated Agulhus leakage?

ascolti

Then..

Now you mention it getting hot in Texas. Well, I don’t want to sound rude. But James Hanson has made it very clear when the weather turned cold in 2008, that “WEATHER is NOT CLIMATE”. So, please, don’t use that. After all, Australia just had one of it’s coldest and wettest summers on record.

ascolti

But in case he thought it was a personal attack or that I don’t believe in climate change or man’s effect upon it, I posted this clearly written post.

I don’t disagree that the climate is changing and the man is affecting it. Anybody who’s ever been to Las Vegas can tell you about the urban heat island effect. But when models are consistently wrong and we are told the “weather is wrong” that just gets my scientific beak all out of shape.

MY point is that we don’t have anywhere near a full picture on the climate and anybody who claims to “understand” what’s going on is a liar, an idiot or just plain doesn’t understand the complexities.

ascolti

Now, this later position is ALSO the same position as put forward in Phil Jones’s own famous interview with the BBC. So I figured I’d be on safe ground here and that the debate would open up to something a little more scientific and in depth.

WRONG!

@ascolti No, Antarctic ice is also DOWN! – losing 24 cubic MILES per year since 2002.

You obviously haven’t gone to the “NASA Climate change” website.

You are just spewing FALSE DENIER PROPAGANDA!

Our atmospheric CO2 has spiked 30% ABOVE the last 400,000 years in just 60 years since 1950. Duhh???

Ocean Acidification is one of or most hidden and serious threats. We could have a major collapse of our oceans’ food chain in just 20-30 years.

goog2k

Now, I did actually go to the NASA climate change website, about 2 years ago. But since then I’ve been getting my data right from the source, either from Goddard, JPL, CRU (but only recently) or the half a dozen other sites who just give you the raw data set. Not to mention the NSIDC.

So I get a bit miffed at this. Because, unlike goog2k, I AM actually looking at the science and the data. Not just following the headlines and propagating the message. Plus I was quite annoyed he never bothered to look into what happen to be some of the most interesting new features in the debate.

@goog2k Antarctic – I got my data directly from the British Antarctic Survey

As for the rest – Wow. You really have drank that cool-aid.

No comment on the Agulhas leakage?

No, because you having a clue what it is or what’s happening with it. So let me tell you, it’s spewing huge amounts of salt water into the Atlantic in response to higher temperatures and is beginning to counter act the acidification process.

Talking to you is like washing a paper handkerchief – pointless.

ascolti

Now I must admit that at this point I do loose my temper and write.

Which brings me to you Goog2k. Just what makes you believe you have all the answers and can throw petty insults?

If you have any claim to be scientific, you must open up your mind to the very possibility that a very small niche of scientists, peer reviewing each other, may not be totally correct.

Science isn’t a collective sport. It’s about repeatable, provable experiments and predictions. If you use that yardstick; Jones, Hanson et al at a failure.

ascolti

Now I do sincerely believe that, about science. But perhaps I came over as a little pompous, to which I’m sorry.

@ascolti Just go to the scientific DATA on: “U.S. NASA – Global Climate Change.”

Their numbers are only 0.02C per DECADE different from UAH and the renown climate denier Dr. John Christy. That’s 2 HUNDREDTHS of a degree difference per 10 years. LOL!!!

He claims average global Temps have spiked +0.14C per decade since 1975.

You’re an idiot.

goog2k

So now I’m really steamed. Sorry. Apologies to all Prius drivers.

@goog2k You clearly just follow the alarmist headlines. I’m sure that makes you very worthy, very important. After all, you’re saving the planet, right? But please don’t mistake your middle class, white guilt righteousness for the truth.

Some of the very worst acts of environmental damage is being carried out in the name of saving the planet! You probably have not idea the amount of damage mining lithium has done. Or how much damage making one Prius causes. Many times more than it saves.

ascolti

So.. now he starts with the BS. Because he could NOT have seen the BAS figures, they are only available via special request for this year. Last years figures are present though.

@ascolti NOW I know you’re LYING!!!

I’ve seen the British Antarctic Survey numbers.!

goog2k

So I reply. Please excuse the use of language.

@goog2k Look, I don’t care what you think you know. But the liar bit, that’s pissed me off.

Please take 30 seconds to discover Phil Leat’s research into the HUGE FUCKING VOLCANO CHAIN he’s discovered that’s melting sea ice in the Antarctic region. They are now a risk to shipping!

BBC Material World recently covered it. It’s very interesting stuff. Basically, it means adjustments need to be made…. we learned something NEW. Better for the world etc. Ditto Agulhas leakage.

ascolti

Then

@goog2k So basically you just insult people until they just get bored of your yap and then go away.

You call me a liar, an idiot, a “denier”.

Even though I’ve already said I agree with you in principle, I’m passionate about REAL environmental damage and that I think the science needs to be improved.

You are so utterly stupid that you able to read those points, have zero answer to any of my questions .. and still justify in your head that you are right. Well done. Keep up the meds.

ascolti

After a very long pause (a shift at McDonald’s perhaps… joke)

@ascolti LOL!!!

What a pathetic JERK!

First, you said Antarctica was gaining ice. Duhh???

LIAR. LIAR, Pant’s on fire.

goog2k

@goog2k 6 hours, and once again you’ve managed to embarrass yourself.

The words I actually wrote were “large areas of Antarctic ice has increased.”. So yet again you attempt to change the argument to suit your very, very narrow margin of understanding.

The irony here is that you’re calling me the denialist, and I’m the one actually studying the science.

As for your last statement, I don’t want to pass judgement. I think they pretty much show your level of competence in the debating front.

ascolti

@goog2k Actually, I’m not terribly interested in what you have to say.

You’re just regurgitating figures off somebody else’s website, you’re not interested in the science at all.

Basically, YOU are the denier.

Because you deny the possibility of there being any further understanding of the climate for a quick “layman’s” view put forward by Al Gore. A man whose own carbon footprint in terms of air-miles per year matches that of the average US families’ life total.

ascolti

I know, it’s not big and it’s not clever 😦 But I did want to try and bring the conversation back to how much work needs to be done and how much of a challenge climate science is.

@goog2k

One final point.

If the science is SO SETTLED.

Can you tell me where the missing 20% of CO2 goes?

Why greater heat appears to be drifting off into space than predicted (according to the latest NASA sat data).

I’m GENUINELY interested in finding out. But I guess you’d see that challenge you’re word view of how things put forward by Lord God Jim Hanson.

The models are not working. We need better understanding. Are you genuinely arguing against that?

ascolti

Not entirely sure I deserved this though.

@ascolti LOL!!!

You’re a pathetic, dishonest TROLL spewing disgustingly false Oil/Coal propaganda.

You haven’t been able to answer a single challenge I’ve given you about any SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE proving you are WRONG!

You’re EXACTLY like the Tobacco TROLLS who spewed FALSE propaganda about smoking 40 years ago.

goog2k

Sigh, more poor reactions form me. Still being rather upset at being called a liar, shill, idiot, pathetic, troll etc etc

Actually, to be genuinely honest, at this point I was genuinely starting to this that goog2k WAS acting in the very paranoid way. Looking back, I think the last line was unnecessary.

@goog2k I’m sorry. I had no idea that you are clearly suffering some kind of mental illness. Because if you think anybody who doesn’t quite agree with you is therefore talking for the oil/coal industry…Well, it clearly shows serious levels of either monumental self aggrandising and/or paranoia.

I pity you. In all seriousness, look back; see how I’m just saying we need better understanding and just try and form those words into some kind of meaning. Then fuck off and troll somebody else prick

ascolti

To which I got;

@ascolti You just spew B.S., after B.S., after B.S. – not even one single word of documented, legitimate science.

goog2k

Figured I’d have a bit of fun. See how well he takes it.

@goog2k I get it now. YOU are the one working for the Oil company and you’re just shilling the idea that all people interested in climate study are self absorbed, white, guilt ridden middle class pricks with a boner to try and impress similar minded people.

ascolti

How did he take it? Not well. Actually, somebody marked this line as SPAM, I had to UNSPAM it to see it. Odd that.

@ascolti LOL!!!

You’re getting desperate.

Keep digging. Your hole is getting deeper and deeper.

goog2k

That unscientific line really grated. So I posted this helpful list

@goog2k So you didn’t bother looking up;

“Increase in Agulhas leakage due to poleward shift of Southern Hemisphere westerlies” – Nature
“Underwater Antarctic volcanoes discovered in the Southern Ocean” – British Antarctic Survey. -BAS
“Giant Undersea Volcanoes Found Off Antarctica” – National Geographic

I realise these must be to “fringy” for you.

“On the Misdiagnosis of Surface Temperature Feedbacks from Variations in Earth’s Radiant Energy Balance”

I am quoting source. You are not. “pathetic”.

ascolti

Now he’s loosing it. You’ll remember I already pointed out that I sport of large parts gaining ice, others not. Seems he forgot that.

@ascolti Duhh???

First, you CLAIMED Antarctic ICE is was INCREASING!

Now you claim Antarctic ICE is DECREASING because of volcanoes!

LOL!!!

What a pathetic LIAR!

goog2k

So now I’m genuinely feeling sad at this point.

@goog2k Shame. It’s really quite sad really. I’ve already proved my case on this point.

But you just persist, under the same sad impression that anybody reading this and taking any interest won’t just look back at my original posts and see I didn’t make any such claim and that you are lying.

This isn’t FOX news chum. You just can’t make shit up and hope nobody will check.

You just can’t debate me on the science can you?

I genuinely wanted a dialog. I got childish name calling. Impressive.

ascolti

And he’s back… more petty insults and making it up as he sees fit.

@ascolti JEEZ, you’re such a Dingdong. Do you think we can’t look back???

Your QUOTE: “And large areas of Antarctic ice has increased. Your conclusion?”

So, which is it, Dingdong. Inquiring minds want to know?

Is Antarctic ice INCREASING as you originally claimed — or DECREASING because of volcanoes (after I exposed your lies)?

LOL!!!

You shamelessly claimed BOTH!

goog2k

Now that last statement just had me in hysterical laughter, because that was EXACTLY MY POINT. And he was using it as an insult to get to me. So I try and correct his misguided argument.

@goog2k No. I’m SHAMELESSLY saying that it’s actually possible for some areas of Antarctica to gain ice whilst other areas loose it. Because, and this is where it might get a little complicated for you, so I will use small words… Antarctica is very big.

What I’m saying is that “some” ice melting in Antarctic could be the result of volcanic activity.

What I’m saying is that it’s easy to jump to conclusions without a full picture.

What you’re saying, well… who knows?

ascolti

And he’s back to quotes….

@ascolti No!!!

What you’re saying is that you were being deliberately deceptive and DECEITFUL – not scientific.

Duhh???

And when I called you on your LIES, you started back peddling.

So, summer Arctic sea ice has dropped -50% since 1980 and Antarctica has definitely been shrinking (by satellite measurements) since 2002.

So, we keep going round & round, but what it proves is that everything you’ve actually said is total BULL SHIT!

What a PATHETIC TROLL!

Now, goog2k has made something of a mistake here. Because I happen to be looking at the ice field data as I was writing back to him. So the NSIDC was right in front of me. So I wanted to make sure he was talking from the same hymn sheet.

@goog2k Summer Arctic sea ice has dropped -50% since 1980 – Are you talking about the NSIDC reports on sea extent and concentration?

ascolti

and then….

@goog2k I’m only asking if you are quoting the NSIDC report, because it clearly shows on “Data” then “Arctic Sea Ice News and Analysis” a nice handy graph showing an increase in loss of just -20%. Not the 50% you love to throw around.

Oh, and extent is also UP on 2007. But July is “record low”. This data only shows the ice. Not the cause of it’s melting. Robert Spielhagen in January published in Nature his study how ocean current changes are causing warm water to enter the Arctic. You read it?

ascolti

And he’s back with….

@ascolti LOL!!!

Well, let’s see. Summer arctic sea ice was 8 million square kilometers in 1980.

It’s now BELOW the record low of 2007 which reached 4.2 million square kilometers in September.

Search NSIDC: Arctic Sea Ice News & Analysis.

So, I apologize, I fudged it’s only a drop of 47.5% in 31 years.

LOL!!!

BTW, WHAT causes WARM ocean currents? Duhh???

goog2k

Now, as the changes in warm water ocean circulation is a rather hot topic in the whole climate debate… you’d imagine goog2k might be aware of it.

@goog2k I did use the NSIDC data.

As for warm ocean currents, the fact you have to ask this question, wow… bless.

ascolti

This the patronising tone might upset him? Well, after 4 hours I get.

@ascolti Again, you say nothing but BULLSHIT!

At least 50% of all the heat from Global Warming, probably much more, has been absorbed by our OCEANS!

Duhh???

goog2k

OK. I had to reply. And it was time to stop the bullshit and get to the crux of the matter. Can goog2k actually prove what he’s saying or is he just talking crap.

@goog2k Somebody rattled your cage?

As you’re now an expert on ocean currents (although you don’t want to discuss the Agulhas leakage… odd) can you;

a) Site your figures (nearly 50% of the warming) and;
b) Explain where the other 50% comes from… hot swimmers perhaps.

Duhh? “Winning!”. 🙂

ascolti

b) Being a joke, obviously.

@ascolti JEEZ, you are as DUMB as a ROCK!

You have never said even one single intelligent scientifically documented thing.

Actually, more than 50% of GLOBAL WARMING goes into the WATER!

If I can PROVE that, do you agree to humbly apologize and NEVER post another DUMB-ASS post on ANY YouTube channel???

LOL!!!

Now I always like a challenge and I love a wager. So if I was willing to make such a bet, was goog2k willing to stand up and be counted for what he was spouting.

After all, if he was able to prove me wrong, he must have some killer proof that would turn me around. Make it obvious to me that he was right all along and that I need to address me science.

So I turned the challenge on goog2k. I would agree, so long as he would do the same.  To put it bluntly, was goog2k all mouth and no trousers, which is what I suspected or did he really know his stuff.

So I wrote back.

@goog2k You are a funny little chap. And keeping you busy having to write back to me means somebody else who might have other opinions is having a nice free time 🙂

Thing is, do you know what a scientific “proof” is? And hilariously, once again when challenge YOU OFFER NO LINKS TO THE EVIDENCE.

But let me put it this way. If you CANNOT “PROVE” your claim, will you NEVER post another comment on ANY YouTube channel? I sincerely doubt it. Because doing THIS is ALL you do, isn’t it. Be honest.

ascolti

I posted this 18 hours ago. I’ve since sent the comment directly to him as a challenge.

You will not be surprised to know that goog2k has NOT replied and will not take up my challenge.

But then I was being a little false on the bravado front; because there is no proof to be made. Which is the exact point I was making over and over again.

Right now, we only have a certain amount of understanding of how the climate works. We can see the basic inputs and have a fairly basic model of the chemistry. But the actual nuances of the interactions, the sheer complexity of the feedback mechanisms, well they defeat even the most complex attempts at modelling.

Even the cutting edge simulations of our climate fail the basic scientific test; in the they are unable to model climatic events from our past.

[/source]

.

I deeply object to the qualification that climate science, global warming et al is a “concluded outcome” because it falls down on so many fronts you wonder how the gravy train got going in the first place.

But then I’m not in disagreement with the scientific understanding that our climate is changing or that man affects climate (I even sited urban heat sink effect). But what I am in disagreement with is our understanding of the climate as a whole, and what the general outcome is going to be.

In recent days a number of well researched scientific papers have been released that highlight the problem of jumping to conclusions. that most recent being that a “tipping point” for the Arctic has been over exaggerated by some quarters. This should come as no surprise to anybody with a scientific interest. Climate science is still in it’s infancy. No wonder the Institute of Physics were so critical of the late of statistical expertise at the heart of the Climate Research Unit.